One-on-one with Department of Probation head Juanita Holmes

Department of Probation Commissioner Juanita Holmes. File photo by Michael Appleton/Mayoral Photography Office

By Jacob Kaye

Crime, law enforcement and public safety have been top of mind for New Yorkers for the past several years. 

But for all the recognition the New York City Police Department, the Department of Correction, or even the New York City sheriff’s office has received in that time, a little-known agency has been working to offer an alternative to incarceration and lower recidivism rates. 

That agency is the Department of Probation, which oversees the probation of around 16,000 New Yorkers each year. Those assigned to the DOP’s supervision have been arrested and convicted of a crime, but rather than receive a prison sentence for that crime, they are instead put on probation. 

Beyond supervision, the agency offers a number of services that aim to connect with probationers with job training, healthcare, educational courses and other programs. 

In March, when Mayor Eric Adams was looking to appoint a new commissioner to lead the agency, he turned to another law enforcement agency – the NYPD. That’s when Adams appointed Junita Holmes as DOP’s commissioner. 

Holmes, who was raised in St. Albans, spent over three decades in the NYPD, where she eventually became the department’s first female chief of patrol and was, for a time, the police department’s highest ranking female member. When she left the department several months ago, she did so as the head of NYPD training. 

Holmes first got her start in law enforcement in the late 1980s, a time when both crime and arrest rates were high. She eventually worked her way up to sergeant, and then captain, spending nearly eight years policing East New York and Brownsville in Brooklyn. 

Though she briefly left the department to help lead security for a financial firm, she made her way back to the NYPD just before the start of the pandemic. Soon after, she was named chief of patrol, a position she said was her “greatest aspiration in the agency.”

At the start of Adams’ mayoralty, Holmes was seen as an early contender to be named commissioner, a role that was eventually filled by Keechant Sewell, another Queens native who abruptly stepped down from the position last week. 

After appointing Sewell, Holmes was made the NYPD’s chief of training, the position she served in until this spring, when she was appointed DOP commissioner. 

The Eagle recently sat down with Holmes to discuss the workings of the Department of Probation, what her goals for the agency are, how she views public safety in New York, the impending closure of Rikers Island, her relationship with Sewell and more. 

Note: This interview was held several days after Sewell had announced her resignation, but two weeks before the former commissioner’s official last day. This interview has also been edited for length and clarity. 

The Eagle: Most New Yorkers know what the NYPD does, what the Department of Correction does,  but far fewer likely know what the Department of Probation does. For the New Yorker that has never interacted with DOP, what does it do?

Holmes: Probation, naturally, is an alternative to incarceration that is dedicated to enhancing public safety. I think those are the two largest missions that were tasked with – public safety and reducing recidivism. That was part of my marching orders from the mayor as a matter of fact. 

With that being said, it's sort of an individualized supervision support system using evidence based practices. I knew there was a social aspect of probation, but I never realized the requirements to be a probation officer. You're required to have a bachelor's, you're required to have two years in behavioral science or a similar field, or work experience in those particular areas. Even prior to supervision, when we get a probationer that comes through their doors, there’s an assessment component. What type of family did you come from? Did you grow up with a mother and a father? Were they married? What were the economic circumstances in the household? All of those different areas are looked at in order to form the proper recipe for this person to succeed. 

You obviously had a long career with the police department and the Department of Probation has a law enforcement element to it. How does the work of the NYPD vary, or share similarities with Probation?

I think they actually go hand in hand. With NYPD, naturally, you're tasked with reducing crimes, you're tasked with holding people accountable and you also have the option of discretion, which is something I tended to use a lot of when I was in that particular law enforcement capacity. Probation, I think there are a lot of similarities. With the NYPD, I had some things in place to be more preventive in nature – speaking at schools, speaking in group homes, a strong youth unit that I had when I was on patrol – all things that were really hell bent at ensuring that there were mentorships for young people. Probation is very similar. The only thing is, now, this is your first experience with the criminal justice system. As a result of such alternatives to incarceration, you are given a second opportunity.  

I would say the difference is that, unfortunately, the NYPD makes arrests. Here, in Probation, if you make an arrest it's usually for some additional recidivism incident, But nine times out of 10, the objective here is to just ensure that there is no recidivism.

But I think we have a lot of similarities in wanting to give people a second chance and not wanting to incarcerate everyone. I mean, you can see from NYPD’s sense that arrests are down tremendously in comparison to what they used to be a few decades ago. But I think with New York City working together with everyone's best interests, whether that's Administration of Children’s Services, the NYPD or Probation, I think we can do tremendous things working together.

You said that arrests have decreased compared to decades ago, but arrests increased last year when compared to 2021 and major arrests are up this year, as well. Has that resulted in an expanded workload for DOP and if the arrests trends continue, which it seems they might, do you see DOP becoming even more of a presence in the city in the future?

It's funny that you asked that question. When we take a look at our numbers as far as supervision, even though arrests have increased, our numbers actually have gotten lower. Kind of weird, right? I'm figuring maybe it's a trickle effect that hasn't caught up to us yet, because of COVID and because of staffing shortages in the courts. I took a deep dive into the numbers recently and I didn’t see too much of a difference except there are less people, at least when it comes to supervision and probation. How I see our numbers increasing is in relation to the city’s efforts to close Rikers Island. The City Council really wants to decarcerate. They believe in it. 

Speaking of Rikers – the city is legally obligated to close Rikers Island and open up four borough-based jails by 2027. What role has DOP been asked to play in terms of aiding the city’s decarceration efforts?

Probably the same thing that all public safety agencies have been tasked with assessing – what can we do to save or keep people from this criminal justice pipeline? 

It's funny because I recently communicated this to the mayor – Why is Brownsville still Brownsville? That's my perception. I've been here almost 37 years in local government, and I see the needs of Brownsville. But addressing those needs requires an entire ecosystem. It's not just law enforcement. It's housing, it's truancy, it’s clean streets, it’s good businesses, it’s investment, it’s changing the mindset. This is just my belief and I'm probably just ranting and raving right now but I believe in it. They say it's seven communities that populate the pipeline to the criminal justice system. Brownsville has always been at the top of the list. That would be my perspective – here's where I'm starting. Something has to be done as a whole with all city agencies. Now you’re really talking about affecting recidivism and it starts with the bare basics, going to school, living in a clean environment, that all plays on the mind. 

It’s interesting because you’re talking about your philosophy on public safety and how it’s really centered around collaboration between law enforcement and social programming. DOP is a collaborative agency – you’re a quasi-state agency, you work in the city, you work with the NYPD. DOP seems to sort of fit your philosophy on public safety.

It absolutely does and as a result of such we are having a call with all city agencies. This is going to be my sales pitch, for lack of a better word. We have to look at it as a collaborative approach, because like it or not, a lot of our clients have to go back and live in these communities, sometimes where it's not safe for them.

It's my sense that the Department of Probation has been, for the past several years, if not, maybe a little longer, turning toward more social programming to try to really set people up for success and provide them with the tools they need to not feel the need to reoffend. Is that the trend that you entered into and if so, are you trying to continue down that path?

I do see where there are some social programs. There are some that I don't think are working. So, that's my job to come in here and make an assessment in those particular areas. There are some that are working.

We've created these Neighborhood Opportunity Network spaces and these are spaces where a probationer can stay in their community and come and check in with their probation officer. If they want a safe space, they want to do homework there, we have mentors if they just want to talk. It's a safe space, but more importantly, it's where we give the training, where we teach them financial literacy, and any other programs that we deliver. It’s important to mention they are citywide and people really support it. Probationers are showing up and obviously feel safe in those spaces. So, we’re going to increase what we’re offering in those spaces. 

With that being said, we're also reassessing what's currently in those spaces. Is it working? Is it assisting with recidivism, but more importantly, is it assisting with reentry? I want to assure that we have the right things in place. I'm data driven. That's how I operate. It's the agency that I come from. It supports whether or not what we're doing is working or not working. Those are some of the things that I'm looking at here. 

I imagine recidivism, or lack thereof, is DOP’s biggest measure of success. But how else is success measured at DOP and how did those measures look to you when you entered as commissioner? 

The measures that were in place since I made commissioner were challenging for me. I couldn't really determine the results of some of our work. I'm not a percentile person –  you tell me 90 percent, I want to know what's the raw number, 90 percent of what, and then I want a five-year look back. I didn't really see it here, other than the fact that the majority of people were completing probation. But success currently is you completing probation, you leaving here with what you need, and more importantly, no recidivism. But I think of it a little differently as far as standards of success, how it's defined. And I'm working on that.

When I walked through the door, it was a little different from my standards. Coming from the NYPD where you can push a button and find out how many robberies I had 20 years ago in this particular area, it’s somewhat challenging here, especially with the largest alternative to incarceration in the state of New York. But we're definitely moving in the right direction.

What are your goals for DOP?

Reduction of recidivism and our clients leaving here in a more productive position so they don't reoffend. That means getting them education and employment. Some of our individuals don't know how to fill out a job application. We want to make sure that they have a driver's license, that you have health insurance – we actually just partnered with a doctor who can give probationers a full medical workup and if there’s something wrong, the assessments catch it early. 

What are some of the changes you want to bring to the agency?

There was never really an exit interview process for our probationers. I think that is more important than them coming in for the first time. It allows us the opportunity to see if they have what they need in order to get a physical, to go to the dentist. Are they employed? If they were lagging in school, are they up to grade level? If they didn't have a diploma, did they get a GED? What is it that you need to succeed? 

We think they need to have a career, not just a job, and we want them to have something that they love doing and where they can actually go into that particular field and work hard and be able to make a career out of it.

On a somewhat unrelated note, NYPD Commissioner Keechant Sewell recently announced her resignation. Not only does DOP work closely with the police department, but you yourself were a longtime member of the NYPD and worked closely with the commissioner. There were reports that you two butted heads several times. Do you have any thoughts on her resignation?

Let's be clear, people always have their perspectives and just because I feel differently about something and she feels differently doesn’t mean we bumped heads, but it was reported that way. 

I and my agency have nothing but our complete gratitude to her stepping up to the plate and taking the bull by the horns. In the capacity of public safety in a vast city like New York City, her contributions are invaluable. I actually honored her – I had a mentorship program called Girl Talk, which had some controversy with Cardi B, but the commissioner was the person of the month there. I tell you, she is very impressive and well received. I truly feel her contributions we're very responsible for the growth of the NYPD for the reduction in crime. 

She walked and talked this stuff. I think that she's on to bigger and better things.

Prior to Sewell’s appointment, you were floated as someone Mayor Eric Adams could potentially pick as commissioner. In the days after her resignation, it’s been reported that you again could possibly be considered for the role. What do you have to say about those suggestions that your name is being considered for NYPD commissioner? 

I can say that the offer has not been made to me. I think it's pure speculation. I think that's where we're at. The mayor will make his decision and it's his decision, and I have no idea where he wants to go as far as that's concerned, but I can honestly say, the offer has definitely not been made to me.

Any final thoughts?

Sometimes probation is looked at as social work, but there is a law enforcement, public safety aspect connected to it. And I truly believe in it. I support it. I know it's something worth fighting for and I hope that the city sees eye to eye with me on that.